A response on my blogger site – A long reply

Hi Fans!  I put way too much time into this today, but feel strongly that this principle needs to be stood up for.  So much for cleaning the house!
Here’s the comment, from brianp:
I hope you are still proud of your stance on this issue when someone in your family, maybe one of those cute kids, wants to marry someone they love. Perhaps they will want to marry someone of the same sex, or different religion, or different skin color. Of course you probably believe that someone “chooses” to be gay. When did you decide to be heterosexual? What made you choose that path?
Here’s my long-winded answer:
Brian,
Thank you SO much for your comment. I appreciate the opportunity to hear your views and reply to them, so again, thank you for taking time to voice them here. I hope you will feel free to comment again. It’s nice to meet people here – even those with opinions clearly contrary to mine.

It may surprise you that I don’t believe that “someone chooses to be gay.” Nope, I don’t. And in answer to your questions, I don’t recall a moment of deciding to be heterosexual, and it’s likely I didn’t have to. Some of us come by it naturally, I guess. 😉 I do, however, remember as a child gaining a testimony of Jesus Christ, and feeling His love for me daily. I remember deciding to follow His plan for me, and I’ve had great joy in my life as I’ve done so. Such decisions could be made regardless of which gender a person is attracted to.

Since we’re discussing the topic of same-gender-attraction, let’s go back to that.  While some don’t choose it, I do believe that some choose to experiment in this realm out of curiosity, and I believe that if governments allow the definition of marriage to be broadened to include homosexual relationships, many more people will fall into that category. In fact, in some places it may become the “trendy” thing to do, which I find a chilling prospect (thanks for a new favorite adjective, Google).

But for people genuinely attracted to, who fall in love with people of their same gender, I absolutely do not believe they “choose” it. This is likely something they’ll have to deal with their whole lives. That doesn’t make them evil. It’s *acting* on that temptation that becomes a sin. God still loves them, but He also gives us commandments & expects us to uphold them. As a society we have gone to great lengths to keep people from suffering the consequences of their bad choices, or even feeling bad about it. 

You seemed to put this on the same level as marrying someone belonging to a different religion, or from a different nationality.  Definitely not the same thing.  In context of your hypothetical situation, I’d
(a) have no problems with my children marrying someone with a different skin color.  It’s all about what’s on the inside.
(b) be sad if they married outside our faith – for several reasons, which I won’t get into here – but happy on some level if they were marrying a good person. 
(c) be disappointed if they chose a homosexual lifestyle – compassionate if they told me they were inclined towards it.  Perhaps it should be noted that I would be similarly disappointed regardless of how they chose to break the law of chastity.

Maybe I should quit my jibberish and just quote something from one of God’s prophets in our day. This from President Gordon B. Hinckley:
“My response is that we love them as sons and daughters of God. They may have certain inclinations which are powerful and which may be difficult to control. Most people have inclinations of one kind or another at various times. If they do not act upon these inclinations, then they can go forward as do all other members of the Church. If they violate the law of chastity and the moral standards of the Church, then they are subject to the discipline of the Church, just as others are.
“We want to help these people, to strengthen them, to assist them with their problems and to help them with their difficulties. But we cannot stand idle if they indulge in immoral activity, if they try to uphold and defend and live in a so-called same-sex marriage situation. To permit such would be to make light of the very serious and sacred foundation of God-sanctioned marriage and its very purpose, the rearing of families” (Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, Nov. 1998, 71).

Again, thanks for your input, Brian. I don’t know if it’s possible to come to an agreement here, as you are probably as firm in your standing as I am in mine. It probably does us both good to interact with people who disagree with us. 😉 Here are a few articles I really enjoyed
Helping Those Who Struggle With Same-Gender Attraction -beautiful article
An interview with Elder Oaks and Lance B. Wickman – outstanding answers to questions on this topic
God Loveth His Children – a pamphlet

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8 Responses to A response on my blogger site – A long reply

  1. Ruth says:

    So this is my first time using wordpress and I must say that I really admire you for switching for the reason you did. My parents recently changed their phone service, internet service, and insurance for the same reason. Thank you for the advice on what to bring/what not to bring. 🙂 And did I tell you that I LOVED talking to you the other night??! Well I did! 🙂 You have so much great advice and wisdom. Thank you for sharing it with me. I can’t wait to see you in a week or two! 🙂

  2. wenderful says:

    Nice job replying to this commenter. I’m pretty sure you guys may never agree, but at least you stood up for what you believe in. That’s our right and our responsibility.
    Hope you enjoy WordPress. I hope they someday make it possible to add music. 🙂

  3. I have to say that this may get long.. Your site is the first I’ve bothered to respond to because I know that most likely my words will fall on deaf ears.

    I will start off by saying, I know nothing about you or your blog. I saw a link back to your blog from another site and read your entry on google. What I am choosing to assume about you is that you are an every day church going person that lives a normal 9 to 5 life. I believe that you don’t go out of your way to be mean or cruel to anyone. You probably are proud of how “god like” you are when you donate time and or money to the local homeless shelters or pray for others at church.

    I believe that you are probably a very nice decent human being. What I don’t think you know is that fighting your fight hurts real people.. actually hurts real lives.

    Here’s the thing.. you know nothing about me so why should you listen to what I have to say?

    You don’t have to and it’s very likely you won’t.. but I’m going to say this anyway.

    It’s been a while since I took a US History class, but I believe that part of the reason that people fled to this country was escape from religious persecution. I also believe that one of the checks and balances in this country is that the supreme courts exist to protect the minority against discrimination from the majority.

    I also believe that in your religion it is not your job to judge. I believe that right belongs to someone with a little more authority.

    You say that you fear that if the government allows homosexual marriage that more people will experiment with this. I don’t know about you, but given the chance or even encouragement to try something with someone of the same gender, if you did not feel any attraction to that person, would you really have done anything? Having a 12 year old, knowing many 12 year olds and knowing many people, I believe that your theory is based on fear and hatred.

    Why is it right that one child deserves the right to not be taught about gay marriage because it might damage his morals when another child doesn’t deserve to be taught that his family is normal?

    The answer to that is that they can both be taught appropriately according to their beliefs in their own place of worship, but not in a public school where this kind of difference only breeds ignorance and hate.

    You are protected in this country when you believe in the god you believe in. You have the right in this country to say what you want. You are protected in this country for marrying the person you want to marry.

    I can come up with all kinds of hypothetical situations to illustrate what it would feel like if all of a sudden you were in the minority forced to live a second class life, but really, those illustrations are way too easy to dismiss. You will never know what it is like to suffer hate and discrimination for something that is as natural to you as breathing air. You will never know what it is like to be convinced that you are insane at age 15 because who would ever “want” to have feelings like that..

    You will never know because it is impossible to describe.. impossible to have you actually share those feelings first hand. It is impossible for you to ever know the relief you feel when you find a community of people that can respect and understand your difference. You will never know what it is like as a parent to have your child come home with a black eye from the kid that found out his parents were lesbians. You will never know the pain of trying to explain to your own flesh and blood why he is just as good as anyone else even though he has two mommy’s.

    You will never know the pain of that 10 year old when he doesn’t understand why people don’t want his mom’s to get married, when all he has known is the comfort and safety of their love.

    This fight is about more than just marriage.. at some point Christians had to learn that stoning people that believed in a different god was not ok.

    I could spend my time citing things that are in the bible that are no longer “time appropriate”, but I am sure as a good Christian, you probably already know what they are.

    Can you see that people living their lives, gay or straight, are not here to attack your life. Until you put yourself out there.. well like on this blog.. I and many people like me, would never concern myself with what you are doing with your life.

    Public roads, taxes, even immigration.. these are all matters that can be taken up in a public forum, but all I can ask is that the next time you decide to post for public consumption your talk of moral values and what you believe is right.. as a Christian and as a person that I truly believe cares about other people.. stop the hate.

    Denying my family and others like it the same rights as your family is making us second class citizens and causing hatred and more ignorance.

    In peace,

    Niki

  4. Coralie says:

    Hi. You convinced me 🙂 I am quitting blogspot as well. I have setup our own site. You have such a way with words dear 🙂 Very well said.

  5. Husband John says:

    Long-time reader, first time poster:


    Niki, what about consideration for the “fight that you’re fighting” which hurts real people and real lives on the other side of the proverbial coin? I certainly don’t condone bullying your child(ren) because of their parents. I can probably relate to your child fairly well, having been bullied and ostracized in the early 80s when my father was diagnosed with AIDS (about which nothing was known at the time except it was the so-called “fag” disease). However, I likewise don’t agree that individuals on your side of the equation are the only people or lives in real hurt.

    BTW, it’s debateable if that is in fact the purpose of the Supreme Courts. Too lengthy to discuss here, but consider: what protection is afforded to the majority from discrimination by the minority? True the Federalist papers are replete with commentary of tyranny of the majority. What about tyranny of the minority, though?

    We need look no further than the special interests continually lobbying Congressional leaders and other federal officials to note the ills when minority views are forced onto the majority.

    It’s a two-way street. The majority can’t walk on the minority, but neither can the minority walk on the majority.

  6. Nancy says:

    Very well said John and Anita nap! I haven’t written much about this issue but feel strongly that proposition 8 needs to pass! I do not hate people who want same sex marriage! I believe the Bible and want to get America back to its moral basis that it was founded on! Our country was founded by God fearing people, I believe in those principles and don’t want to change the principle that God has set up for us!

  7. jesurgislac says:

    First of all – quite sincerely – I congratulate you for standing up for your beliefs. I disagree with your beliefs completely, but I support your decision to quit using Google’s blog software because you disagree with their political endorsement.

    (Though I hope that if one of your children realises she or he is gay, that you never refer again to your belief that your God wants them to be celibate and alone all their lives and never mention it again: Committment and sincerity are good things, but parents with your views have driven their children to suicide when they decided their religious beliefs were more important to them than their children’s lives.)

    That said: How do you justify your belief that Americans ought not to be allowed freedom of religion? You argued in your blogpost over at your googleblog that the government ought to enforce legal/civil penalties for what your religion defines as “sin”. That’s fine for you (not necessarily for your children) so long as the government is enforcing your religion. Once drop freedom of religion, however, and you cannot assume that the government in power will always be enforcing your religious rules on other people: they may enforce other people’s religious rules on you.

  8. Husband John says:

    Jesurgislac, et al —

    I expect unmarried individuals, my children and yours, to remain chaste irrespective of sexual orientation. Likewise, I expect absolute fidelity between spouses, my children and yours; gay or straight is irrelevant. Not married? No sex. Married? Sex only with spouse. Hetero or homo doesn’t alter expectations of complete chastity before marriage and absolute fidelity thereafter.

    Re: suicidal inducement, that smacks of a straw man argument.

    At the risk of putting word’s in my wife’s mouth, I don’t recall her proposing that Americans “ought not to be allowed freedom of religion;” perhaps if you provide the quote in context? As Americans (should) know, religious freedom is paramount (though the notion of “separation of Church and State” is itself an independent issue worthy of long, long discussion). What you may not know is that religious freedom is also a fundamental teaching of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our religious denomination (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/a_of_f/1/11#11).

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